Talk:Bankai Stage 2
Whoa So, I found this article after reading Bankai Mastery's article. I uh...I feel I need to throw my own two cents in here. This is...extremely overpowered in my opinion. Yes yes it's inspired by SSJ2 in DBZ, but honestly, this is Bleach, not DBZ. Wasn't there a rule on this site that Bankai would be the actual final stage of a Zanpakuto's evolution, and no others? I'm not calling you out when I say this Sei, as I've never seen you do so, but I've seen new users come and make somewhat more believable stages beyond Bankai than this, and then they get chewed out and the article is deleted. And I also just feel I need to bring up something else: Ichigo at the time of his Bankai mastery is possibly the most powerful character that we've seen in the series so far, ever. For someone to be able to go to a level of Bankai beyond even that? That's just an unfair powerhouse waiting to happen. And what's worse, this can actually go beyond just stage 2??? Dude, total overkill. No, it's not even total overkill, it's MASS overkill. NO character will be able to stop them no matter what. Again, this is just my viewpoint and I'm not saying that it should be deleted (even though i personally feel it would be doing the site a bite more fairness), I just had to point out how...well, overpowered it is. And honestly, it feels unrealistic as well. I know Ten's Dragon Planet Wiki is going smooth and all that, but seriously, DBZ elements in a Bleach universe...just don't work from my standpoint. Yeeeeeah! Now it's a party! (talk) 01:23, September 27, 2012 (UTC) : Well, Blank, examine some of your points please. This is not "beyond Bankai", per se. It's an extension of Bankai, an evolution that is named, if you will, which we all know can occur. Yamamoto literally just stated it in today's chapter, if I may remind you. And I take offense to that, suggesting that others (most likely n00bs) who've made other "beyond Bankai" stages are more believable. Now, if you don't understand the physics I was using to explain the concept, then that's one thing, but I really think you need to rethink that accusation. It is only as overpowered as you think of it. I mean, so now I have to limit my own ideas because others cannot find a way to be just as powerful without breaking the rules? I don't see how that is my problem. I'm following the rules. Bankai is the final stage. And this is simply an evolution of the core Bankai, but it's still classified as a Bankai. So I really think you're making this sound far worse than it actually is. At any rate, I plan to limit the use of it to my stories only, and allow others to use it under very specific circumstances. --Silver-Haired Seireitou (talk) 05:03, September 27, 2012 (UTC) Whether you use Bankai Stage 2 as a viable power source, you really shouldnt use that silver-tongue to explain your reasoning Sei. No matter how look at it, its still a level beyond Bankai, that in reality already exists, but doesnt. Its not right to say that...Bankai has different..."levels" or "stages", as inspired as you are, this is NOT Super Saiyan. Just as a person can continue to grow and achieve new skills and experiences, so too can the spirit itself. People already have a tendency to have their characters go through Zanpakutou like a new pair of shoes, this isnt going to help. Rather if you want to improve upon Bankai, then just flat out improve upon it. Not sure if thats how you wanted it to sound like but it sounds like you're trying to get around the rule itself by claiming that because its an extension of Bankai, which would technically make it okay. There's no need to add levels. There's no need to add stages. If you're character goes through a dramatic change, then it makes sense your Zanpakutou might do so as well. They're learning and experiencing new things just as your character is. It could mean new powers, it could mean the loss of old ones, it could mean a different name for the zan, or perhaps an extension of their release command as you come into full circle of their power. But honestly you dont need another "transformation" stage, its completely unnecessary. There is no such thing as "complete mastery" of Bankai. You and your soul companion are constantly growing, changing, so explore that instead. Explore that relationship. Give it meaning. Otherwise, it feels like you're cheapening the spirit, cheapening the release that is Bankai. I think thats what Blankslate was trying to get at. As for me? I think a Zanpakutou is more than a mere toy with new powers, it is a spirit, its own character, its own person. Its why I try and include an appearance and personality section for my Zanpakutou spirits. They deserve it. They deserve to have input on the actions of the character, they deserve their own speaking roles. Hell they deserve to have their own objectives and goals beyond helping the Shinigami. Maybe there's something your Zanpakutou wants to accomplish, use those events to bridge the gap, to ascend to even higher levels of cooperation and power. Anyway thats my two cents. --- Illuminate Void (Talk) 18:43, September 27, 2012 (UTC) Sei, I wasn't meaning to offend your imagination or your skills as a writer. But this still feels like (*stressing* in my opinion) something that is beyond Bankai, regardless of how you look/word it. When Yama states that Ichigo's Bankai had "room to evolve" (which is kinda stupid seeing as how he's used it nearly every single battle he has ever since he first learned how to use it), or that when he implied that Bankai's had room to evolve, I think he was meaning in a sense that Void just stated. The Bankai can be improved, adapted and more enhanced without the need to go to a level or "stage" of Bankai. For instance, I see it in a way like "Soifon can only fire this Bankai once every three days. However, with more training and bonding with the soul of her Bankai, she can reduce that time to a mere day, or she can even fire it twice in one day without severe taxation (which...she apparently could do anyway....I dunno stupid Kubo logic) Or, another example I'm thinking of is Sajin's Bankai. Perhaps with more training with it, he can make it to where damage inflicted upon the colossus is reduced when it transfers to him. -Blankslate Confusion It's mostly the wording with me. Just an observation, but here's the introduction of this article at this moment in time just for easiness sake: :Bankai Stage 2 (卍解二准, Bankai Nijun; literally "Final Release Level 2"), also recognized as Bankai Second Stage, is an ascended state beyond the level of Bankai. It is considered Bankai's direct successor, attained only by those who have achieved Bankai Mastery. Right, here's where my confusion comes from. Use of the words Ascended and Direct Successor. By their very definition these words describe something that comes after or is higher up the rung if you will, in this case, another level of zanpakutō release. That immediately puts it across in the mind of the reader as something beyond the final release. Looking at it that's my only confusion. I've read the article a couple of times and get the internal workings and all that, no problems there. So maybe avoid describing it as something higher than Bankai, Sei? You know, keep it firmly on the Bankai rung of the ladder, and not jump to the rung above it in your descriptions of it. Kenji-Taichō (Talk) 22:16, September 29, 2012 (UTC) :When I use "beyond Bankai", the phrase, it's meant to say it is a successor, an evolution if you will, of the base Bankai form. I mean, there would be no other way to explain it unless I just say it's the same as the base Bankai, which just makes the entire concept moot. The point I'm making is, it is "beyond" Bankai without actually being "beyond" Bankai, if that makes sense. It's like the expression, a master with a pebble can defeat a novice with a knife (or kunai, if you prefer the actual Naruto quote ~_~), meaning that even if someone had Bankai Stage 2, a sufficiently powerful regular Bankai could very well match it, as to why I was saying Blank's earlier statements were making it sound worse than it is. Bankai Stage 2 is Bankai, simply an "advanced" form, an evolved form, born from a very specific circumstance. It's my take on the evolution of a Bankai, simply that. --Silver-Haired Seireitou (talk) 22:45, September 29, 2012 (UTC) Fair enough, Sei. It isn't an easy thing to describe while keeping within the guidelines. In fact, now that I look at this from a different viewpoint, I find it fills a similar niche as Ulquiorra's Resurrección: Segunda Etapa. It's still a Resurrección -- it's merely a heightened form of it. This is still Bankai -- it, too, is merely a heightened form of it. That sound about right? Kenji-Taichō (Talk) 13:14, September 30, 2012 (UTC) I think I get it... So this "Stage 2" isn't really a level above Bankai, its just a new form for those who have mastered it.BraveHeart70 (talk) 02:22, November 15, 2012 (UTC) Just for reference So how does this compare to Mugetsu (and other end-all techniques, as they've surely been made)? I'm assuming it would be: *Bankai (Captain-level) 5-10 x Shikai *Bankai Mastery (Post-Dangai Ichigo) several x Bankai *Bankai Stage 2, several x Bankai Mastery *Final, immeasurable That sound about right? [[User:KawaTsuyo|''KawaTsuyo]] Message 05:56, January 12, 2013 (UTC) :No, Saigo no Getsuga Tenshō would just be part of Bankai Mastery. Contrary to popular belief, the FGT isn't some super special awesome form Ichigo took. He essentially reached the highest level of Bankai power at that stage, but only touched upon it. He never truly ''mastered Bankai, only touched upon it. Therefore, Stage 2 is superior, as it is the stage beyond that of "mastery". --Silver-Haired Seireitou (talk) 06:49, January 12, 2013 (UTC) ::Okay, thanks. [[User:KawaTsuyo|''KawaTsuyo'']] Message 16:03, January 12, 2013 (UTC) That makes a lot more sense o3o The Omniscent Shadow of the Moon (talk) 13:11, May 13, 2013 (UTC) :Of course it does, what did you expect from my genius?! *pulled it out of his ass* --Silver-Haired Seireitou (talk) 15:24, May 13, 2013 (UTC) :I knew it :< Yeeeeeah! Now it's a party! (talk) 15:55, May 13, 2013 (UTC)